Short for "GeologicalScienceBlog", subjects will include Geology, Climatology, Environmental Science, NASCAR, Beer, Property Rights, Politics from a Christian Conservative/Libertarian viewpoint, and random thoughts. My background is two degrees in Geology (BS, MS), 8 years of geology/environmental employment and almost 8 years of teaching Geology and Environmental Science on a Junior College level. <68>

Friday, May 25, 2007

Gitmo and Abu Ghraib versus...

real Middle Eastern-style torture.

That's the subject of this Michelle Malkin post and the linked posts/articles within it. A major point of Michelle's post was that the anointed "human rights groups" have been rather silent about this subject.

This post from The Smoking Gun has drawings from the Al Qaida torture manual found in a Baghdad "safe house". These drawings (go ahead and look at them) will give you an idea of the depravity of our enemies, as if we didn't know already.

If we had shown a more united front in this War on Terror, if we had a "loyal opposition" in this country, Al Qaida, et al, might have decided that their methods could not succeed and they might have slunk away.

But this is probably some of what happens to any of our soldiers and contractors captured by Al Qaida and their ideological cohorts, with the "we are divided message" delivered by the anti-War Left telling them that time is on their side.

Damn you Dick Durbin, Rosie O'Donnell, Jimmy Carter, and any other of you stupid Leftist traitors that suggest that anything that we have done is anything like what "passes for normal" in the Middle East, regarding torture.

Does the Al Qaida manual say anything at all about "observing the Geneva Convention"?

Are there any Islamist lawyers ready to step forward and fret about the "habeus corpus" rights of Al Qaida captives?

So who is going to be the first to say that this is a CIA fabrication?

Who is going to be the first to say that Al Qaida never did stuff like this before we invaded Iraq?

I would never endorse these sorts of methods to extract information, but we have to have in our arsenal aggressive interrogation methods as we are fighting people that have no rules!

Labels: ,

Posted by: on-the-rocks / 3:00 PM
Comments:
you rationalize the US's abandonment of the geneva conventions because of the truly egregious nature of our present enemy....

but since when do we let the bad guys decide the difference between right/wrong, good/evil?

just because we haven't *completely* sunk to their level doesn't mean we're still on moral high ground.

how any american could not feel anything but shame and revulsion when our government has authorized "enhanced interrogation techniques" (ones favored by despots such as pol pot) is beyond my comprehension.
# posted by Anonymous brandon : 5:07 PM
 
We didn't abandon the Geneva Convention, from my understanding of its definitions.

The detainees are not uniformed soldiers of an organized army and while sleep deprivation and water-boarding are very unpleasant, it still doesn't fit in the same category as the Al Qaida-style torture.
# posted by Blogger joe-6-pack : 5:16 PM
 
right, "from your understanding"....

you can engage in all the verbal gymnastics you see fit, that does not change the fact that the present administration has abandoned the very moral fiber our country was founded on. our founding fathers are doing somersaults in their graves right now.

i maintain, since when do we let these a**holes define what is right and wrong?
# posted by Anonymous brandon : 5:31 PM
 
We are fighting an enemy that OBSERVES NO RULES. Nothing is "off the table as far as they are concerned". They will kill their own children if they can kill a few Americans at the same time.

What are we doing that compares to Pol Pot?

What would you propose to prevent future 9/11-style attacks? What strategy would you employ to get information that might save lives?

Being nice won't do it.
# posted by Blogger joe-6-pack : 6:21 PM
 
what are we doing that pol pot did? here: http://hrw.org/photos/2006/ct1006/photo3.html

it's a waterboarding restraint table used by the khmer rouge. we do this to people now.

again, i must reiterate: by letting the bad guys set the standard for what is acceptable bahviour, we have let the terrorists win. torture is torture is torture. it's never right. you don't like that opinion? then you've got a problem with the principles upon which our country was founded.

more to the point, a huge part of this war we're in right now is winning over the hearts and minds of the muslim world. how do you suppose we'll achieve this when we treat them this way? shouldn't we be demonstrating to them what real democracy looks like? cuz to me it doesn't look at all like this:
http://boles.com/called/06/abu.jpg
# posted by Anonymous brandon : 7:46 PM
 
When you have an enemy that OBSERVES NO RULES, when self-preservation is not part of their equation, how do we extract information in order to possibly stop some of their plans?

What would you propose for the "ounce of prevention"?

We are restraining ourselves, they aren't. Usually, when we are "finished" with those we interrogate, they are usually still alive, unlike when Al Qaida "finishes".

The people usually subjected to our "methods" are not people we could "teach to values of democracy to". These are not mainstream Iraqi and Afghani citizens.

How many times have we read or heard of everyday, mainstream Iraqis, going about their daily business, being blown up by the same kind of people we interrogate with these methods?

As for the misbehavior of our Army personnel in Abu Ghraib, I am not excusing that. It was clearly abuse, but it still is not the same thing as was promoted and illustrated in the Al Qaida torture manual.
# posted by Blogger joe-6-pack : 8:22 PM
 
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